Interviewee: Moeletsi Mbeki, Deputy
Chairman, South African Institute of International Affairs
Interviewer: Bernard Gwertzman, Consulting Editor, CFR.org, July 12, 2012
Interviewer: Bernard Gwertzman, Consulting Editor, CFR.org, July 12, 2012
South Africans feel a "special
relationship" with the Democratic Party for its history of support for the
anti-apartheid movement, as well as for the fact that President Obama's
"commitment to democracy in Africa has made him an ally to the majority of
Africans, who feel that democracy in a way is a precondition to the solution of
our problems," says South African scholar Moeletsi Mbeki. In contrast,
Mbeki says, Republicans, "in terms of South Africa, don't have a good
record," citing in particular former president Ronald Reagan's avoidance
of strong sanctions against the apartheid regime. If Africans could vote in the
upcoming elections, Obama would win "by a landslide," says Mbeki.
Given that President Obama's father
was Kenyan, I would expect that he is quite popular in Africa. Is that the
case?
I don't think people put a lot of emphasis
on Obama's being of African origin. Most people understand that Obama's
responsibilities as the president of the United States are to the people who
voted for him. But we South Africans, black South Africans in particular, have
had a lot of support from African-Americans going back to the nineteenth
century. We had many people at the end of the nineteenth century and beginnings
of the twentieth century going to study at places like Lincoln University;
many of the founders of the nationalist movement studied in the United States.
In fact, Pixley ka Isaka Seme, a founder of the African National
Congress (ANC), studied law at Columbia. The African Methodist Episcopal
Church was and is influential in South Africa since the last quarter of the
nineteenth century and it has lots of members in this country.
What about political ties to the
United States?
There has been a special
relationship with the Democratic Party in the post-Second World War era. This
is especially true for the Kennedy family, which was very supportive of our
struggle against apartheid. One of the first military sanctions imposed against
the apartheid regime was during President John F. Kennedy's term, after the
massacres in Sharpeville in 1960. Edward Kennedy was posthumously honored
by the South African government earlier this year for the work he did against
apartheid. Obviously, Obama being an African-American and a Democrat, we see
him in South Africa as an ally in the same way as the Kennedys and Jimmy
Carter.
Has Obama created a lot of
enthusiasm for himself or is he just considered another Democrat?
It was very positive that the United
States had a new president, and that he realized that he had to dissociate the
United States from strong men like Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire, who had had a lot
of [the] United States' support.
Obviously, there was a lot of
interest about Obama, because he is the first African-American president in the
United States. He's a very eloquent guy; he's kind of in the league of Martin
Luther King. If you remember, he spoke in Cairo, and in Accra, Ghana. What he said then resonated very strongly with
people in Africa, especially the point he made that what Africa needs is not
strong men but strong institutions. We suffer at the hands of strong men. So it
was very positive that the United States had a new president, and that he
realized that he had to dissociate the United States from strong men like
Mobutu Sese Seko of Zaire, who had had a lot of the United States' support.
Obama's commitment to democracy in Africa has made him an ally to the majority
of Africans, who feel that democracy in a way is a precondition to the solution
of our problems.
Are Africans familiar with
Republican candidate Mitt Romney?
Not until he started running against
Obama. The Republicans, certainly in terms of South Africa, don't have a good
record. In more recent times Ronald Reagan had a policy of "constructive
engagement" with the apartheid regime, which we, South African blacks,
were totally against. But I have to give credit to George W. Bush, who
instituted good anti HIV/AIDS programs.
If the Africans could vote in the
American presidential elections, would they favor President Obama?
Definitely. Because of Obama's
strong message of democracy in Africa, he would win by a landslide.
What reaction did Michelle Obama get
when she visited South Africa last year?
She got a huge, very strong, and
warm reception from all the sectors of South Africa. A lot of people admire
her.
You have been critical about the emphasis on consumption instead of
investment in South Africa.
It's a huge problem. We are
somewhere near to 40 percent unemployment in South Africa. One of the causes of
is this drive for consumption, especially for the black middle class, instead
of investment in infrastructure, in industry, and so on.
Are people getting unemployment
insurance? How do they survive?
There is some kind of a welfare
program for children under sixteen, but the government is planning to raise it
to eighteen, so that is kind of a welfare program. But the problem with these
welfare programs is that funds or resources that should go into job creation
are used for welfare, which then goes into consumption. Therefore, we don't
have investment, and therefore we're not creating the jobs that would lead to
making those people self-sufficient instead of dependent on state welfare.
You've also been critical of the ANC,
right?
Well, the ANC runs the government
that is driving this consumer revolution.
Culled from www.cfr.org
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